Page last changed January 23, 2003

Which model is meant for me?

C or L or T model

The main issue is the carrier. If you insist, you can add a carrier yourself (see Transporting (more) luggage with a Brompton - Adding a rear carrier to an L-model). Adding a front light and wiring yourself is easy, so they don't matter much.

How usefull is the carrier?

• David Hansen, Apr 1998:
  I find the rack on the T type very useful for less arduous excursions. My toolkit and spare tyre fit into a pack under the seat. Then my coat can be rolled up and put on the rack. There is then no need for a pannier. Without the front pannier I am not tempted to take useless things along for the ride. The rack is also useful for carrying things when one runs out of space in the front luggage.
  Against this is the extra weight when carrying the bike and when cycling.
• David Hansen, Sep 1999:
  Very useful for some things, little use for others.
  It is good for carrying a folded up coat, letters and other post, a box of A4 paper (the pegs under the rack allow the bungees to be placed so the box doesn't hit one's feet), suitably sized bags, tents, slide projectors, medium rucksacs (rest on it and are also fastened to the saddle) and anything else than can be put on it.
  It is little use for fitting most bicycle panniers as it is too small, although small panniers have been fitted right back and Custom Folder supplies some good small ones for it.

3 or 5 gears

• lighter (200g ?)
• more robust, as confirmed by expert Dave Holladay (Transporting (more) luggage with a Brompton - Dave Holladay). Details: Spotlight on the (hub) gears - Hub gear breakdowns.
• reported to be more efficient, some (few!) people even claim that 1st gear on a 3 speed is easier than 1st gear on a 5 speed, despite the 5 speed's lower gearing ratio
• about £80 cheaper
• easier to adjust (requiring less accuracy)
• equipped with a simpler, cheaper, smaller gear controller
• free of the pertruding 5 speed's Gearing Roller Assembly

• have finer (although varying) gaps between gears (still course compared to derailleur gears)
• have a wider range (3 speed: 9/4, 5 speed: 16/9)
• cannot freewheel while misadjusted or incorrectly engaged (thanks to the Sprinter design)

{Keith J Russell} [...] should we fork out the extra UKP 80 for the T5 or stick with the simpler, and perhaps more robust, T3? [...] We'll be using it for light commuting, trips to the shops, train journeys etc. Definitely won't be touring on it (yes - I kow some hardy folks do) but we'll stick with the tandem for that type of cycling. I can't imagine we'll cover more than ten miles at maximum.

• Riding issues - Changing the Brompton's gearing set-up
• David Evans:
  It very much depends how hilly it is! I recall that East Lothian, like Wales, is quite hilly. I would definitely go for a T5 as I have done. The higher gears are also great for zipping along the flat. The additional ?80 is well worth it.
• Phil Gough:
  Go for the T3. I use my T5 for the sort of riding you describe,always carrying a case on the front and rarely use the lowest gear, although the high top is great for a burst of downhill speed occasionally. [...] Unless of course East Lothian is a very hilly part of Scotland!
• Anthony "you can't have too many gears" Cartmell:
  I'd recommend the T5. IMHO the extra choice of gears is well worth the extra money. The current Sturmey-Archer five speed gears are probably as robust as the three speeds (but are slightly heavier?). Even for short journeys it's amazing how often you meet strong winds and steep hills, and who knows where your Bromptons will take you in the future...
• Andrew Henry:
  I was faced with the same decision. Both hubs weigh the same. The gear change with the 3 speed is a bit slower - you have to consciously stop pedalling before the change is made. With the 5 speed, you can just ease off a little.
  The downsides with the five speed are that it is newer, so the long term reliability isn't as well proven as with the 3 speed.
• Stein Somers:
  I used to be suspicous about the Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub (SA3), because of the problems I had with it. (I didn't use it properly though). The main problem was the failure mode: the SA3 would drop in between gears when you were pushing hard on the peddles, so there was nothing stopping you anymore, except certain body parts hitting hard metal.
  So I was even more worried about the SA5. I did purchase a T5 (recently, with a single cable). It got misadjusted in the beginning (the locker nut was not tightened), but didn't fall in between gears, it just doubted between gears. I immediately corrected it and it's still fine after 1500 km. So, regardless of the number of gears, I definitely prefer the SA5. It switches between gears more easily as well.
  I also know of one major drawback of the SA5: I slipped and fell on the first ice of this winter, and the SA5 gear controller broke. It is plastic (junk), whereas my old SA3 used to have a decent metal controller. And I had to pay (the equivalent of) 14 pound sterling for a replacement!
• Peter Amey:
  The current T5s have only one cable for the Sturmey Archer and it is no more difficult to remove than the 3-speed (it does require a bit more accuracy when adjusting).
• Malcolm Lyon:
  The latest [5-speed] Sturmey hub is called 'The Sprinter' and is controlled by a single cable. A feature of this is that it has no 'slipping position' - the gears are continuously in 'drive' whilst changing up or down.
• Phil Gough:
  my T5 is an elderly model fitted with the old twin cable SA-5/2 hub - which, incidentally, despite being maligned by some is still perfectly satisfactory after 8 years and nearly 10,000 miles of use. But in truth, it got a lot better when one of the later rear fork assemblies was fitted, as this allowed much better alignment of the cables and less friction in use.
• Meryl Prestidge:
  why does the Folder keep saying the gears on a T5 are not adequate in hilly regions? I'm in Plymouth, UK and my T5 with 18% gear reduction seems fine so far. 21 might be better, but 5 do the job.
• Carl Etnier:
  [...] the guy at the shop warned me not to get a T5. If the hub fails, he said, you're shpxrq.
• Peter Amey:
  I don't think the 5-speed Sprinter (single cable) hubs are inherently more of a problem than 3-speeds and they are just as easy to service.
  Having said that I have just found mine to be very (very) badly worn internally after rather less service than I think it ought to have given. I sent a FAX to Sturmey Archer this morning saying that the wear was too high and they called about an hour ago to offer me a free replacement set of internal parts; pretty good service I would say.
  My only regret about the more recent hub gears is the lack of an oil port. I know the greased-and-sealed-for-life arguments well but remain convinced that a regular weekly flooding with oil is a better solution for hub gear longevity.
• Leonard Rubin:
  Many years ago I used to own bicycle shops in New England, and used to specialize in all things Sturmey Archer. The five speed hubs were always much more fussy than the good ol' AW (venerable three speed model). They have much shorter indicator chain (that's the proper name for the little chain that pulls the rod that moves the gears inside the hub) travel between gears, and it's hard enough to hold the adjustment on a non-folding bike! Alignment is indeed critical, as the use of a good quality cable, housing, lever and lubricant throughout the system. There used to be a few different lengths of indicator rods (the bit inside the hub that is attached to the indicator chain, sometimes I found a manufacturer used the wrong length rod for a particular axle/nuts configuration, though I am not suggesting that is the case here.
• Simon Shearn:
  I've got a T3 (three-speed without any gear reduction) and find that climbing gradients steeper than 10% is difficult - the Brompton isn't the sort of bike where you can come out of the saddle when the going gets steep. If you're planning to do hills frequently you might want to consider a 5-speed or one of Brompton's gear-reduction options.
• David Henshaw, Mar 98:
  My 3-speed regularly undertakes journeys of 30 miles or so, and we've ridden 60-70 without ill effects. This is in moderately hilly country too. The secret is in the choice of gear ratios - they are spot on. So my advice would be - go for the little bike with minimal gears and a big heart. But make sure to fit a decent saddle and Primo high-pressure tyres.
• Custfold, Apr 1998:
  For proven reliability use the 3-speed which in AW form has remained virtually unchanged in design for over 60 years - and some 60 year old versions are still going strong.
  The 5 speed has more bits = more bits to go wrong
  There have been several 2 cable versions - the SA5 and 5-star spring to mind as both have been on the Brompton, then we got the 1 cable Sprinter with the C**p plastic changer which wears out - and the rather fine adjustmant of the cable to make the 2 stage sliding dog work.
  As the 5 speed has this larger sliding dog bit there is a bigger slot in the axle -making it weaker - and I've bust several 5 speeds against only 1 AW which was when I was 14 and through crass incompetence rather than loading.
• Tom Bennett, Aug 1999:
  I'm glad I bought the 5 gear model. In cycling around France this summer, I used all five gears regularly. I never biked at night in the country, so I had no need for the T model. Also, the Pannier system worked perfectly well, so I never needed a rack for the rear wheel. Therefore, I recommend buying an L5 with the Pannier system.
• Peter O'Reilly, Oct 1999:
  I live in Manhattan as well and have an L5 with no gear reduction.
  I opted for the 5 speed due to the obvious reason of a greater variety of gears, but I think the 3 speed is more than adequate for Manhattan. For longer excursions, you may find the extra gears to be of great benefit.
  As for no gear reduction, I opted for that since my body is accustomed to riding a bicycle. Channell persuaded me to not go for reduced gearing - which was on the mark indeed. Although, I did hedge my bets and purchased a rear sprocket for something like $5. (It's still in the wrapper and not likely to be used at this point).
  With all that said, I rarely use the 4th gear. Out of pure curiousity I tried out the 5th gear once on my Brompton. At the speed 4th or 5th gear dictates (20+ mph?), I'd personally prefer to coast down a hill given the design and intedend use of the Brompton coupled with urban road conditions and traffic. To that end perhaps reduced gearing would be of benefit - allowing a greater range of gearing for gears that will be *frequently* used.
• Stein Somers, Oct 1999:
  In '96 I opted for the 5 speed and never regretted it. I reject the statement that 3 gears is enough for Manhattan. I've never been anywhere near to it, but I remember it being close to sea, so even if it is flat as a dime the wind will compensate for that. Also recent activities, be they labourous or social events, can greatly influence the gear chosen. Anyway, I'd rather use the 5 speed's 3 middle gears than the 3 speed's widely spaced gearing. I think you limit your Brompton to a 3 speed only if you have a particular reason to: being exceptionally strong, lacking in cash, plannig to transport the Brompton more than ride...
• David Cox, Oct 1999:
  I reckon that the cheapest L3 is fine for Manhattan, I had a good 3 days riding around the island Memorial weekend and never felt the need for more or lower gears. The 3 speed is still in my humble opinion Sturmey's best ever product - reliable and easy to adjust.
• Julie Kosicki, Oct 1999:
  I agree with [3 gears], unless you happen to carry heavy-ish loads (e.g camping gear) and / or tend towards knee ache. I carry a lot of paper files and overnight gear on mine and now and again (age rather than riding position) get the odd bit of knee pain. So I find the extra two gears and lower gearing very handy, even on the relatively gentle slopes of much of London, but most definitely in the hilly district where I live. If you're travelling around the country on your Brompton or abroad, the extra gears would certainly be a good investement : You're bound to meet a challenging hill sooner or later.
• Reuben Winitch, Oct 1999:
  I used to have the L5 and now I have an L3. I was much happier with the extra gears. Neither were reduced.
• Jim McLaughlin, Oct 1999:
  I have the 50/14, although I will probably switch back to the 13 tooth. When I was in the mountains with a 50 pound trailer and the temperature was over 100 degrees F, I put a 36 tooth in front. That was low enough to prevent heat stroke. The lowest gear was about 11 inches with the 36 tooth, low enough to spin out at 2 or 3 miles per hour. After about 40 miles of riding in the mountain heat I was surprised that I felt a lower gear yet would be useful on those 3 mile long ascents.
• More numbers in Spotlight on the (hub) gears - Hub gear efficiency

Reduced gearing

{Clive Page, Apr 2000} Just in case anyone else is still as confused as I was about the gear options on the new Bromptons, I have here a leaflet from the Brompton Bicycle Ltd dated March 2000 which sets it out in terms I can understand (i.e. inches):

L3 & T3		47"	63"	84"		50 teeth x 13 teeth
L5 & T5	37"	44"	56"	70"	84"	44 teeth x 13 teeth
C3		44"	58"	78"		46 teeth x 13 teeth

Options are:

3-speed models	12% lower or 18% lower.
5-speed models	14% higher or 7% lower.

• David Henshaw:
  For all it's worth, if you are buying a 5-speed Brompton, we would certainly recommend the full 18% reduction. We have ridden our 3-speed machines in San Francisco without any reduction, so we know what the hills are like, and would probably prefer lower gears if we cycled in S F every day.
• Andew Mackay:
  I have tried the 0%, 12% and 18% reductions and from the description of what the type of riding to be attempted I would strongly suggest a 12 % reduction. Since the bike is not to be used for touring and the down-hill speed is not of the essence, the most benefit of the gearing can be obtained from a lower ratio to allow pedalling up the steepish San Francisco hills.
• Phil Gough:
  The human legs are a pretty good and flexible gear system. After about a month you won't need those lowered gears and will able to use the high ones to whizz down those hills.
• David Edge, Sep 1998:
  [How is the 18% reduced gearing achieved] 44T chainwheel vice 50T and 14T sprocket vice 13T.
• John Newgas, Nov 1998:
  I live near the top of Highgate Hill in North London - the highest point in London. I found that the 12.5 % reduction was pretty successful in making the hill manageable with a Three Speed Brompton.
  
  The hill however is so long that my stamina runs out at the end of a days work, and I sometimes walk the last part. Having borrowed a multi- speed non-folder I realise that the gearing doesn't actually make the hill go away - the problem is me and my general condition.
• Tom Bennett, Aug 1999:
  I recommend the 12 % gear reduction. With the original gearing, I spent most of my time in gears 1,2, and 3, and no time in 4 or 5. With 12% reduction, I found myself using all the gears. It seems to be an axiom that easier gears are a necessity, whereas harder ones are a luxury. I don't find myself zooming downhill, craving more speed nearly as often as I find myself puffing uphill, desirous of less stress. My elfish wife has the 18% reduction, which she finds excellent, but is slightly too easy for me. I am 6 feet tall and very athletic. Nevertheless, I found myself using first gear quite often. My observation is that European cyclists tend to spend more time in harder gear, where Americans prefer to keep those legs spinning fast.
• Nico J. de Boer, Aug 1999:
  [...] the reduced gearing (42 teeth front, 14 teeth back) only gives you one low gear extra (as compared to the original 50-13 T5), and this is completely inadequate for unathletic people like us to be able to cycle uphill with luggage (2.5kg front, 14kg back). On hills steeper than 15% we had to push instead of cycle. Maybe for the really strong a 42-14 T5 is all they need, but for us there is no alternative but to start saving for a Swiss Mountain Drive. (Any Bromptoneers having experience with luggage and a Mountain Drive?)
• Jim McLaughlin, Aug 1999:
  I pulled a 50 pound trailer through the Appalacians this summer in 100+ degree F heat. In addition to the mountain drive, I dropped the front chainring to 36 tooth (I think it is 14 in back still). My target was to keep my heart rate below 135 and I just barely did so in the heat. If I recall, that range was about 10.5 to 64 gear inches. Now that I have the 50 tooth back on the front, I think it is around 15 to 89 gear inches.
• De Clarke, Aug 1999:
  What Channell told me, untechnically, was that if you bike anywhere that is not absolutely flat, you want the 18 percent reduction.
  Having ridden the bike with 18% reduction I agree with him :-)
• Chris Newport, Sep 1999:
  Despite the availability of 12% and 18% reductions and people saying they 'never use 5th gear' etc. etc. I personally spend > 90% of my time in 5th (commuting between Kew and the City of London daily - pretty flat except for Holland Park Avenue), < 5% in 1st, my legs generate more torque than power and I generally often find myself wanting a 6th gear.
• Stein Somers, Oct 1999:
  I'm down from the standard 50/13 set-up to 50/14 and still slightly long for a smaller chainring. I favour a 14 tooth sprocket because it's better a keeping the chain from jumping off (probably also at keeping you from putting it back should it happen anyway), wears slower, and should be more efficient. However I understand only the 18% reduction includes this 14 tooth sprocket and 18% seems a bit too slow to me. 12% reduction is 44/13 and 18% reduction is 44/14. At least in Europe, 46 teeth fixed chainring are very common, but they don't (all) fit on a Brompton, so it's not easy to change the chainring. The sprockets are hard to find anyway, whether 13 or 14 tooth.
• Giles Robinson, Oct 1999:
  Gosh, I'm tempted to say "beware high gear evangelists", but I'm sure the intention is good. I have a 12% reduced T5 and use : 2nd, 3rd, 4th more or less equally; 1st quite often, going up steepish hills it is certainly easier than 2nd; 5th almost never. I almost regret not getting the 18%, but the 12% 5th does have its uses. We do have hills in Manchester/Stockport (UK), but it's mostly pretty flat.
  When buying, I compared potential Brompton gear ratios to those I use most often on my other bikes -- do this if possible. If (like me) you prefer to twiddle than push, the Brompton default setting will look too high.
  Some people just seem to be able to go fast, I wish I were one of them. A Brompton occasionally used to pass me on the way home from work, & I couldn't catch it (on my touring bike). I have two T5, both bought with standard transmission. Main advantage is that 3rd gear, where the hubs internal efficiency is best, reaches high enough for most cruising. Various Experts recommend pedalling about 90 rpm, which is above 27 km/h In 3rd gear. 4th and 5th gear are left for going downhill or with favourable winds. I changed the rear sprocket on both bikes to 14 teeth, giving 8% reduction. This requires an extra pair of links in the chain, giving 100 links. That is twice as much as the teeth on the chainring and, in theory, causes additional wear of the chain. Even with that transmission I had not much use for 5th gear. Some weeks ago I converted to 18% reduction by changing the chainring to 44 teeth (no, it was not worn:) . I am perfectly happy with it. I find the standard transmission suitable in summer on a lonely cycle-path with favourable winds and 120 Psi in the Primo tires, but riding in city traffic with dynamo, rain jacket and facing winds I feel I cannot save 2 of 5 gears for rare occasions. Best advice is to compare the transmissions availiable by Brompton to that You favour on Your current bike. Even if that leads to false conclusions, conversion is simple.
• R. Maynard, Oct 1999:
  I'd endorse this. I've had an L5 with 18% gear reduction for about 2 months. Around Dublin (mostly flat) I rarely felt the need for a higher gear. Here in Seattle (hilly) I often use the lowest gear.
• Jim McLaughlin, Oct 1999:
  The thought of using 5th gear 90% of the time makes my knees hurt. But I'm not young and can't maintain 20 mph for more than a few miles. And I'm determined to never see a knee surgeon.
  I wonder if it is understood that 1st and 5th are the same gears running backwards and forwards so to speak. So the efficiency is similar. There are technical drawings at sturmey-archer.com
  In my humble opinion, you can never have enough gears unless you never go anywhere or carry any loads or hit any winds or hills. If you do none of those things, you must not have a bike. Someday we'll have ergonomic front wheel drive folding recumbents with light, efficient transmissions spanning a ten to one range with steps of 8%. That would be at least 30 gears with no overlap. Meanwhile, get as many as you can afford. It's much more important than, say, a fast computer.
  But please, folks, try to keep your pedaling cadence up to 80 rpm or at least 70 rpm most of the time. It will keep you riding for many more years than grinding away in a too high gear. You'll get used to it, albeit slowly.
• Matt Hayworth, April 2000:
  At first I thought I had made a mistake in getting the T5 and 18% reduced gearing (since I felt like I wanted a higher gear) but when I hit one murderous little hill, I could see why someone might want a greater range at the bottom end.

Do I need a longer or telescopic seat post?

• Bruce Boysen:
  With the seatpost fully extended my seat is still a good half inch too low. I know I can get a longer post, but I'm hoping a new seat would get me enough height. My question is, will I be able to get at least a half inch by changing seats & if so, what seat (I'd prefer a good leather seat...Brooks?) will give me the most additional height?
• Bob Warwick:
  I am 5 foot 11 inches and found that the seat post was too short - I ended up buying the extended tube which is fine for length, although I expect if you are much over 6 foot you may need it longer still.
• Bruce Boysen:
  Yesterday I put a Brooks Conquest seat on the brompton & it gives me enough leg extension with the standard post. I'm 6' tall. It adds alot of height & the springs on the saddle make for a very plush ride, its the most comfortable saddle I've owned. An added advantage is it also looks great.

The Brompton Folding Bicycle FAQ